RPG Puppeteering: This MUST STOP!

Malus-Darkblade, Undefined, 14 years ago

Puppeteering: Controlling the actions or thoughts of a character that is not yours.

I have seen a lot of this during the most recent RPG, from people on all sides. For one thing, it's really annoying for the person being controlled. How the hell do you know they would do that? Do you know the player's character as well as they do? Do you have any RIGHT to control thier character? The answer is NO!

This has really struck a nerve with me, it's true, because it is in my eyes even WORSE than Godmodding, because you're basically stealing the other player's right to RP.

Never, ever control your opponent. If the enemy you’re fighting isn’t another member of the forum, namely just some fictional character, than you can control them all you like, but if it involves another character that belongs to someone else, than this is adamant. This doesn't just apply to combat, this is anything to do with Rping. You can control your character and your character only. This doesn’t just mean major actions, but also slight things, such as saying “(Person) hadn’t noticed the Yautja’s height and it took them by surprise.â€Â

That’s already saying that another persons character was surprised by height, when that particular character might not be surprised by such things. What if that character had been through all Hell already? What if they simply didn’t care? It may seem like a small thing, but this can be particularly annoying to any Rper, as it’s taking their character and making them something they’re not. Never do this.

Now, back on track, here's how it ties into battle. In combat, newcomers tend to make the common mistake of assuming what an opponent will do. This happens because the newcomer just thinks that if they punch an opponent, the opponent will block. Or just assuming that by shooting at an opponent at random would make the opponent fight back. This is a bad thing to do as you have no idea what kind of character the opponent is. For all you know the character might not fight back but retreat, or simply yell at you, asking what the Hell you’re attacking them for. Just because you punch someone doesn’t mean they will simply block and do nothing more. They might not block at all but simply dodge, or like I did, grab onto your arm and knock you over.

Just because something may seem obvious to you doesn’t make it obvious to other people. It’s important to understand that another character in an Rp has a real, live player behind it, and that player has their own knowledge and may come to their own conclusions. So never control someone else in combat, but let them react to your attack.

-That bit in italics is a quote from Orthus, a moderator of a website called Predator: The Hunted, and he knows what he's talking about, more than I do, so instead of rambling on I'll leave what he's said about this for you lot to chew on.

And a little heartfelt note. DO NOT PUPPETEER! EVER!

delta-boy, Undefined, 14 years ago

malus i agree,we should take rules in to stop people doing it.
P.S since this was my first RPG(i came here in spring last year) did this happen reagurly in past ones ?.puppetering?

Malus-Darkblade, Undefined, 14 years ago

I'll go back and check in the old RPGs. I bet it didn, but not quite on this level.

DeathWraith, Undefined, 14 years ago

It's impossible not to do a bit of puppeteering in an RPG, but still, what the hell, keep it as little as possible and try at least to make the character react based on it's description or on past reactions so that the player doesn't get offended. You can't just leave the other character pinned to the spot, but only describe passive reactions.

shadowatching, Undefined, 14 years ago

No matter where you look, there is always a touch of MODDING. But, the only modding you can do, from what we have done in my clan forum, is just little bits. LIke "He kicked her shin, to break it. She reached down to grab the foot and fling it away." The small ones are fine but "He took his wrist blades and slamed them in her shoulder" when she can move around, that is modding. I have been pinned a few times, only to get out of it. :) easily. Modding is hard, when you want to be the victor. Just rememer, Small is fine, but an injury you know, you can get out of is not good. That is modding.

black_warrior, Undefined, 14 years ago

I see absolutely no problem at all with puppeteering in combat, or sometimes out of battle, if it leads up to combat. Plus, this has happened in numerous if not all RPG's in the past, in order for combat not to get stale and boring. I know for a fact that some of our oldest and most experienced members have done it, and it was in a good way to bring abit of competition into their own post. Now back when i was a noob, i followed examples, or tried to, and this is one of the things I, and im sure many others, picked up on.

Now i know there are limited situations, such as godmodding, but puppeteering is essential in combat for an RPG. Now if they did something to where (like Shadow said) you obviously could get out of it but they said you couldnt, then it would fall into the category as Godmodding, or atleast in my opinion. And Shadow, im not sure what you were trying to say with this- "The small ones are fine but "He took his wrist blades and slamed them in her shoulder" when she can move around, that is modding" sounds abit like you cant be hit, as that is not really a kill post, sounds small to me. just curious.

Now how exciting would a fight be if one person were fighting and since they were told not to puppeteer, the opponent in their post just sits there like a rock and does absolutely nothing? I would much rather make my opponent fight back towards me than being restricted and having no competition until that person posts back and then I cant do anything. I would rather someone control my character in a fight because even if they dont know what i would do in a situation, something is better than nothing.

Now about out of combat, some is fine, but not all. I remember in Leap of Faith i believe i was following Kidd because i wanted to fight him, so i controlled his character abit to where it would lead up to the fight, but still fit in with what he was doing before.
Now something like this i would think is unacceptable:

P1's post- "P2 defied his orders and ran all the way across the planet looking for a fight, and suddenly found P1"

Now that makes no sense at all and totally messes with what P2 would be trying to do.

Now Malus, when you say "DO NOT PUPPETEER! EVER" it goes against what you quoted, when Orthus or whoever said "but let them react to your attack." and reacting normally involves fighting back, which you normally add into your post. now if you attack someone and they dont want to fight you they can contact you through the discussion topic or email and ask you to change their post or just simply post something happened to their character that made them unable to fight back, whether it be rockslide that blocked them off or whatever.
Now if there is something I am missing about what you are trying to say then please say so, so that I'll better undestand your side of it.

(sorry for the long post, that is basically all my opinion about it)

Malus-Darkblade, Undefined, 14 years ago

Let THEM react, not react FOR them. Jesus. If they don't want to fight you, that's thier call, you can't MAKE them do what you want just cuz you're bored.

They have the right to thier own char, even if they're bein boring.

The-Wolf, Undefined, 14 years ago

How could you make a post during a fight and not control the other person just a little bit? You'd be constantly whooping their ass which wouldn't make it fair. The fight wouldn't even work out then. It wouldn't be balanced.

Lets cry about it.

-Bloo-, Undefined, 14 years ago

You can't bother your opponent about every little action, deciding which action would be best. They might not care. But you can't control them like they're your own character. Make it seem as if the owner of the character had written it themself. If you know the character is a badass thirty-year-old, don't be saying that he was scared out of his mind like a child. That is was godmodding is.
But things like minor actions such as blocking or punching aren't so bad.

Peterson, Undefined, 14 years ago

OK well thank you for that breif explanation bloo it was greatly informitive. Now its simple if me and bloo were fighting this is how it would go if i was god modding

*Peterson Grabs Bloo's head and jams it under neith an apc before letting the apc drive over him.

thats god modding but this is a correct way of doing it.

*Peterson grabs at bloos head before trying to throw him under and apc and run him over.

that would be acceptable, notice i didn't say that i did it I instead said that i attempted to, So it gives your opponent the chance to defend theirself.

DeathWraith, Undefined, 14 years ago

"Peterson Grabs Bloo's head and jams it under neith an apc before letting the apc drive over him."

BUT isn't that a kill post? And don't we have rules for that?

During a fight, i say, what the hell, you can make the opponent hit back, or block, if you want it to be a fair fight! Now how fair the fight is also depends on those rank points that noone knows what are for. But anyway, i'm straying from the topic. Do not put words in another character's mouth, maybe unless you know that character very well and can really know what it would say in a certain situation. You sure as hell can't say the other character shit his pants and ran away, if you don't wanna fight him cos you're too weak. And if you are to describe reactions like making faces or hatred, or joy or something, do it through the eyes of your character, so that even if they're wrong, at least that's what YOUR character thought they were.

Anyway, people who know eachother and know already the other guy's character could puppeteer without offending the other guy, but if you make the character seem to be something else tan it's actually supposed to be, that's damn bad. I used to do that with predess, just to annoy her.

-Bloo-, Undefined, 14 years ago

Exactly. You can control the other character, but there's a limit, and you all know what the limit is. If you're a level 10 human and you're fighting a level 99 Predator, you can't say that you (the human) miraculously bashed his head into the wall and ripped his arm off like it was a single layer of tissue stained with water, afterwards making him cry like a baby that hasn't been fed right for six weeks.

You have to be realistic. Of course you can fight back. But let's face it, you're a human, and level 10. You suck. Check the player's profile for his level/rank.

Minor actions, such as punching, kicking, stabbing, etc. aren't important. If you're the human, you can say you punched the Predator. But you can't say that the punch paralyzed him. You can probably say that it looked as if it didin't do much.

If you're the Predator and you're on the end of the punch, you can say that it didn't do much, but it knocked your head an inch or two. You won't know how he reacts to such a thing if you don't read a description of that character, or maybe seeing him in action in a previous RPG.

About character diologue... that's one thing that you have to think about. You're the Predator and you're deciding what the human will say after you break one of his fingers. If he's tough, maybe he'll only mutter. If he's the new kid on the squad, he'll probably scream while falling backwards face-first into a pile of Alien guts.
If he's already dying, he'll probably fall back and die, saying nothing. You don't know until you know what the character is like. Is he strong willed, weak minded, an idiot, a smart ass, a mute?
This is why character descriptions in your profiles is important.

I cannot stress that enough. If you're joining an RPG, make sure that you have a detailed description of what your character's like in either your profile or somewhere other members have easy access to. If you don't have one, I suggest you make one. It's important.

Knowledge is key.

Malus-Darkblade, Undefined, 14 years ago

Be that as it may, anyone who TRIES to control my char will get an earful. I'll be fair tho, and not control anyone else's char. You wanna see if it's possible to RP without puppeteering, just watch me rp.

-Bloo-, Undefined, 14 years ago

I respect your view on the situation, it's just that, you're making it sound as if all puppateering is bad. We humans kill all the time. But there's a difference. There's hunting and there's murder. Most hunting is either for survival or for game. But then there's serial-killing, which when compared to our situation here, is what bad puppateering is. The hunting bit is what we should normally use. What I'm trying to say here is that there's a bad way to do it and there's a not so bad way.

Controlling the other player, in ANY way possible, is an inevitable move. Especially in fighting.

Malus-Darkblade, Undefined, 14 years ago

Heh. I'll prove it's possible to not do it. Many sites ban puppeteering.

black_warrior, Undefined, 14 years ago

Many sites that ban puppeteering in my opinion are stupid if they take it to such an extent as saying no actions at all are able te be controlled even a bit. They are banning something that needs no banning and I hope this site doesnt turn into one of them...

Deathdrop, Undefined, 14 years ago

Take a look at Daveberg and me "fighting" in the Vengence RPG. We both controlled both characters plenty of times. You've got to allow some leverage with this sort of thing. If not, you'll get posts like this:

*Predator jumps at Alien*

*Alien moves out of the way*

*Predator throws disk*

*Disk hits alien*

Imagine 100+ pages of that. People sort of need to work together in a give-and-take sort of way.