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HomeForum › OFF-TOPIC THREAD 17: DINOSAURS ARE THE SHIT

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OFF-TOPIC THREAD 17: DINOSAURS ARE THE SHIT

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DeathWraith
2016-08-06 14:48:53
Xenomorph
"character development was in Man of Steel, BvS was a direct sequel, so he had no need for more of it"

Character development doesn't mean backstory, it means the characters reacting to events in a way that makes them seem more human than just stones with faces drawn on them. Angry stone and stone who can fly and punch things. But we all know these characters, so ya gotta just imagine their personalities while they have the same facial expression throughout the movie.




Let me tell you what I fucking remember. I remember The Dark Knight Returns, which I saw long before BvS. BECAUSE IT HAD CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. It wasn't just Batman going "well, I guess I'd better beat up Superman to stop these bad dreams." and Superman going "Martha..." It had actual drama - DRAMA, NOT DRAMATIC MUSIC TO IMPLY THAT DRAMA IS HAPPENING - and the whole world wasn't depressed just because Superman exists. Do you know what would happen to humanity if super heroes actually existed? Nothing. People would go on with their lives. When 9/11 happened - because that's a super-hero movie scale disaster - do you know what I did? I was watching it on TV and I thought "whoa, I can't believe this is really happening, how can this be real?" and 15 years later I still don't care. Remember Fukushima? Or think about Chernobyl. Do you feel like the world is a bit of a shitty shade because Chernobyl happened? When the Sewol sank with 300 high school students trapped inside and they all died, would Korea's first female president not have had the police spray their parents with fire hoses the next year when they gathered at the memorial if Superman had existed? Of course she would have, because Superman is fucking boring. OOOOH THERE'S A GOD AMONG US, HE CAN'T BE HARMED BY BULLETS AND ALSO it doesn't mean anything because he doesn't do anything important. He doesn't save people, he doesn't write good news, he doesn't think Batman is cool. On the other hand, if Batman existed, sure, people would care because he's just a dude in a suit who fights crime at night and if he decided to fight Superman for no fucking reason people wouldn't care because it has nothing to do with anything. Oh and also Lex Luthor blows some shit up because he's there too haha don't forget we have a villain in this movie ;)

READ THE RULES


A song about me and skull_ripper that I wrote:
"Yeah, uh, yea yeah, uh, yeah, crackers gonna crack yeah, uh, yeah..."
(thats what I have so far hope u like it)
-Bloo-
2016-08-06 15:46:51
Xenomorph
@HP: Well sure, of course you can't please everyone. Even GOOD movies don't please everyone, so between being a good movie that doesn't please everyone and being a bad movie that doesn't please everyone, I'd rather have the good one.

And man, people don't hate BvS because it was a crossover. Crossovers can work. Bad writing doesn't. AVP wasn't bad because it was a crossover, it was bad because it was bad. Same thing goes for Freddy Vs Jason and whatever other bad crossovers you can think of. Good superhero crossovers already exist, it's not impossible to do them.

And sure, everyone is AWARE of these characters, but not many people truly know them. And people don't know THESE versions of the characters. You can't just not have character development and plot explanations just because people know who Batman is. Imagine if a new James Bond just... had no background or personality. Imagine if Daniel Craig's run started out with him just being brooding and cold-eyed with no explanation...and then he spent all of his movies giving no explanation. Why the hell should I care about this asshole? People are aware of James Bond, but they don't know him. You've gotta show people what he's like and what he turns out to be. That's what character development is for.

I still stand by the 6/10 rating, but god it should have been a 9/10. It had so much potential. How does Snyder take two of the most iconic characters in history and make them lackluster while Marvel is taking a bunch of D-list no-names and making them superstars? Everyone hates Superman and Batman right now while everyone fucking loves Ant Man and the Guardians of the Galaxy. I can guarantee you knew absolutely no one who knew about Black Panther two years ago. Who the hell was Iron Man and Captain America before 2008? Who the hell was Thor? Black Widow? Some guy named Coulson is huge and he's not even a superhero. Spider-Man, one of the biggest superheroes in the world, is no longer the biggest star of Marvel's live action movies. Superman is somehow not the biggest superhero in the world right now. Motherfucking Super Girl is better received than Superman right now. That's surreal. It's incredible.

I've seen plenty of arguments in favor of BvS that actually make sense, but the problem is that none of these arguments are made explicitly clear in the movie itself. For all the explanations for Luthor's behavior and Batman's Martha rant, none of that is actually clear in the story proper. You can explain away Batman's killing all you want--"it's because he's an older Batman who's tired of the world" or "he had no faith in humanity which is why he was murdering people"--but none of that is actually in the movie. It's just not. It's poorly executed and it's a goddamn shame. And the faithless Batman thing doesn't even make sense. We've seen Batman at MUCH worse in other movies and comics, yet I don't remember him ever falling so low that he started killing people (or branding them) on a whim. Batman Beyond started because Bruce would rather give up being Batman than start killing people. He would rather kill himself before he willingly killed another person. Affleck and Cavill have the capacity to be the best Batman and Superman we've ever seen, but the shit writing is holding them back.

I don't want you to feel like we're attacking you, it's just, none of those things you listed are the real issue. The real issue is that it's just bad.

Edit: I'm not trying to convince you to hate the movie either. You like what you like, you can't help it. I enjoy plenty of things about movies I consider bad 'cause not everything about them is bad.

MODERATOR / LEADER OF THE SHADOW SERPENTS

DeathWraith
2016-08-07 04:23:23
Xenomorph
I actually just realized that this Batman doesn't even have a backstory in the movie. It repeats the backstory of Batman, but for the last few decades that's been the backstory for a Batman who doesn't kill. Because what's the point of a Batman who kills, really? The point was that he killed communists. Back when Batman used guns in the comics, he also hated the Chinese and the Mongols. He wasn't The Batman. If The Batman killed people, Gotham City would criminal-free in less than a year. So how DID this Batman, who can beat Superman, manage to survive for 20 years without killing everyone?



EDIT:

READ THE RULES


A song about me and skull_ripper that I wrote:
"Yeah, uh, yea yeah, uh, yeah, crackers gonna crack yeah, uh, yeah..."
(thats what I have so far hope u like it)
Hunter_Predator
2016-08-07 20:49:44
Yautja
Lol, yeah Bloo for a second there I felt a bit of pressure, but it's all good. Basically what I'm pretty much trying to clear up, at least on my end and in my personal opinion is that I don't see how so many people, including on here are stating that it is factual that BvS was an awful movie. I'm pretty much just saying we all have a choice here, you like steak? I like chicken, sorry. "The ROOM" is a factual "Bad Film", poor production quality, writing, acting, casting, etc etc, nothing was good, The Room was like Family Guy, people watch it to laugh at how pathetic or dumb it is, not because it's a great film, but honestly? I almost take that back because it's still arguably "Art", and to an extent some "Great Pieces of Art" look like my girlfriend's 2-year-old's chalk art on the bedroom wall, but to some uppity-pompous snob it's a "Marvelous Piece".

I'm stating that I say, in my eyes, Batman vs Superman and Alien vs Predator were Great and Enjoyable. Quality? Perhaps not, perhaps so, but Good in my eyes. And I feel too many people are saying "No, we don't dislike because we dislike, we dislike because IT IS BAD"

"Well... You know... that's just, like... your opinion, man."

I'm in no way saying that Marvel is factually poor, or BvS is Proven quality, I'm saying that to me personally, I really thought it was great, well done, and enjoyable to me for reasons, whereas I find Marvel to be sub-par, unenjoyable, and just 'meh' at very very best. There's no need for people blowing up in all caps and pulling out the explicitives to tell me that their opinion is fact and my opinion is unacceptable. That's all I'm saying, dig what you dig, I'll enjoy what I find pleasing. Here are my reasons as to why I find it to be an enjoyable film, now why are people saying it's indeed a poor film and not just simply "Not their cup of tea?" because apparently Snyder thought it was where he wanted it to go, and I had no problems with his direction.

~"No One Will Ever Change This Animal I Have Become"~
DeathWraith
2016-08-08 03:27:09
Xenomorph
>now why are people saying it's indeed a poor film and not just simply "Not their cup of tea?"

I'm 30% sure we have all presented several reasons as to why we believe it's actually bad, but at the same time, it doesn't really matter, it's just a discussion based on different tastes and standards. It would be foolish to hold one standard as higher than the other, given that they don't really go together. It would be like saying the Gobi desert is better than Antarctica because there's less ice, even though they're obviously both great and shit for entirely different reasons. It's a matter of perspective.

It's the same with The Room. From an artistic standpoint, The Room is a masterpiece. Not because of the ironic so-bad-it's-good factor, which is what most people see in it, but because it is the final step in the story of Tommy Wiseau's struggle, the point where he made his dreams come true. In this way, The Room is more ukiyo-e than movie, because it's just a low value printing of the story that made it possible. When you understand Tommy Wiseau, you will find things in his movie that you otherwise wouldn't know were there. Most people look at ukiyo-e and see a print of an image, without knowing that each coloured shape's negative was carved by hand into its own wooden stamp by the artist, especially for creating this specific low quality print of an image and then be disposed of. It's the same with The Room, everything Tommy went through since he was a young boy in Poland was stamped into that low quality movie.

READ THE RULES


A song about me and skull_ripper that I wrote:
"Yeah, uh, yea yeah, uh, yeah, crackers gonna crack yeah, uh, yeah..."
(thats what I have so far hope u like it)
Hunter_Predator
2016-08-08 05:10:10
Yautja
Well whether Paul Anderson made the biggest mistake of being exceedingly biased while creating a crossover film or not, you could say that AvP has similarities to The Room. (Hah, this segue came full circle somehow back to AvP lol) Paul Anderson grew up being a huge fanatic of Alien and the Xenomorph fictional species, just like us. He states that ever since seeing Alien he always wanted to make an Alien film, and a film with a strong female lead, and wanted to make a breakthrough film that people would kill to see, and loved the idea of mythology and creating a universe so-to-speak.

AvP was Paul's The Room, maybe not quite to that extent but event though AvP was all about "The Preds do this, the Preds have that, Worship Preds, Predator Honour and ritual, the Predators win" etc etc and they dive into Predator Lore and Culture and the Aliens are just kind of... there, he still made an Alien Film, and indulged himself in making one Alien kill two Yautja in a row (including possibly the coolest Yautja ever... still bitter about not getting to see Celtic rip apart a Xeno and winning that Grid fight but, I digress, Paul proved his point of how tough they are I suppose...) to showcase that they aren't disposable insects but an actual threat. It's an Alien film, has some hints of the first Alien's creepy and the sequel's Action.

Alexa is no Ellen Ripley but she's a strong female lead, she has her weaknesses and shows fear (Just as Ripley did) but also stood up to it all and became strong. Still no Ripley though, but he didn't want an obvious copy. For the breakthrough film he made freakin' AvP, people have begged for decades. So as you may say about the Room, maybe not quite the same struggle but, Paul has wanted to make a film like that his whole life, he became a Writer/Director, and if you say "What he did doesn't constitute or qualify as Writing and Directing, so hardly" then I'd same the exact same for The Room, and then he got a story (I'd say a nice one too) and a great production value (Well made costumes and effects and sets), sure it had it's flaws but you know what, he made his dream come true, and mine by seeing and AvP film be made, and impressed me with the new Lore created that fully combined the two species and showing us new forms of both on film that I found impressive in their own right. Does Scar hold a candle to Jungle Hunter? Not at all, not even in the slightest, but Celtic is still for some reason my favourite Yautja.

~"No One Will Ever Change This Animal I Have Become"~
Deathdrop
2016-08-08 10:28:23
Yautja
We've gone on-topic in the off-topic thread, thus going off the topic of being off-topic, which makes it on-topic, and therefore off-topic. I just want everyone to appreciate how meta this is for a minute. We're living the dream, folks. We're living the goddamn dream.

Also, I'm curious to watch the first AVP again; I want to see if it's as bad as I remember or if it has some campy charm. I remember liking Lex, at any rate.
-Bloo-
2016-08-08 12:21:36
Xenomorph
^I WANNA TURN OFF THE LIGHT BUT THE SWITCH IS ALREADY IN THE OFF POSITION AND NOW WHEN I TURN THE LIGHT OFF THE SWITCH IS IN THE ON POSITION AND IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Hey we should all watch AVP and discuss it again. It's like a "10 years later" reunion thing but not meaningful at all.

Edit: I liked Alexa but I don't remember a single human character from Requiem.

@HP: Yeah that's the thing, the AVP movies were dicks in a blender but all the designs were still really cool. That's why the same fans who shit on the movies are still buying all the Hot Toys and NECA statues of Celtic and Grid.

MODERATOR / LEADER OF THE SHADOW SERPENTS

tawganator
2016-08-09 01:24:46
Xenomorph
Jesus chocolate covered Christ on stick. I just finished watching Hardcore Henry and no that is not a porno. I enjoyed the heck out of it except for one little teeny tiny thing. It was so damn shaky that I had to pause it several times to keep my insides in. But still I liked it and want to know if anyone else has watched it and felt sick.

Also AVP a look back, lets do that.


King of the Drones
Life is long but the Day is short
-Bloo-
2016-08-09 03:51:21
Xenomorph
I'm currently going through all my art from 2013 until now and boy is a lot of this shit bad. I can't believe I was confident enough to show you guys all this 3 years ago. Did it always look like this? I can't stare at the earliest ones for more than half a second without cringing and these are the ones I posted here last time I updated. Wow. It's amazing how much things change in 3 years. I really appreciate how supportive you guys were at the beginning; I feel like I wouldn't have kept practicing and gotten better without you guys.

Sorry, I'm still emotional after watching Kids on the Slope.

@Tawg: Never heard of it, but the POV thing sounds interesting.

MODERATOR / LEADER OF THE SHADOW SERPENTS

DeathWraith
2016-08-09 15:13:53
Xenomorph
Come on Bloo, you should know that your own works will never look good enough after you've improved, but it was the best you could do back then. They also look actually good. At the very least a lot better than nothing, which is what we had before and would have kept having unless you showed us something, whatever it was. However your style changes, it will always be good, especially if it's better than how it was when it was good already.

READ THE RULES


A song about me and skull_ripper that I wrote:
"Yeah, uh, yea yeah, uh, yeah, crackers gonna crack yeah, uh, yeah..."
(thats what I have so far hope u like it)
Hunter_Predator
2016-08-09 16:19:22
Yautja
@ -Bloo- & DeathDrop

I'm currently showing my girl the Alien and Predator franchises, so far only watched Alien 1 and Pred 1, only plan to show her Alien 2 and AvP now but she's not enjoying them, doesn't find them scary and thinks they are kind of dumb, she doesn't believe in extraterrestrial life so she only likes horror films involving Ghosts and Demons because she does believe in them, so she's not seeing the entertainment value, she dislikes Sci-Fi (Ergh) and can't get passed the Sci-Fi aspect of movies about Alien Beings, so I may not be able to get around to it but I can watch AvP again on my own if I find the time, so I'd say yes, due to the nature of this site we should do it... By the way you two killed my gut with laughter lol.

@ -Bloo-

On the Topic of Artwork, DeathWraith is right, your own work will always look unimpressive to the artist. Being a musician there are times I look back at old songs and think "What was I thinking?" or "God I was Emo" but to be honest, others liked them, others related or even loved them, and at the time I wrote them they meant something very powerful and deep to me, and that relativity and helping of others is the whole reason I wrote them, So I try not to look back, still play them because I love them and so do others and always look forward and just try to continue writing more and better things that relate to me now, so that my whole life is in the chain of music. How I feel now is certainly not how I felt 3, 5, or more years ago, and that's what makes new and old art so amazing, just go back to who you were back then and you'll appreciate your old art the way you used to and see why people who appreciate it now do because maybe at this point they feel like you did back then, that's what I do with old music, I just go back to that time when that song meant a lot to me and feel that way again so singing it is just as passionate because literally "I understand, I've been there" because well... I wrote it.

~"No One Will Ever Change This Animal I Have Become"~
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