Relooking The Code Of Honour

There has been alot of debate regarding what is actually considered a break in the honour code & what isn't, this should be quite interesting.

As far as Billy was concearned, he had made a last stand. His squadmates had been killed, & he had made a strong but silent challenge to face the predator one on one. It would be considered cowardly & dishonourable to simply walk away from the challenge, so the predator took him on & killed him. While one man with a knife (it wasn't a machete, despite what alot of people have said) may not seem like a great threat to a predator, the principle of the challenge & the hostility & willingness of the prey to fight meant he was still a worthy kill. How the predators can identify certain objects in their hazy-looking vision modes has always been a complete mystery though.

Both men who were gunned down, Blaine & Mac, were also actively searching for the predator at the time they were killed. Blaine had his minigun armed & was searching for Hawkins' killer when he was taken out, & Mac was planning to ambush the predator after Dillon had flushed him from his hiding spot. The plan obviously backfired. Both Mac & Blaine had intentions to track & kill the predator, & were armed with significant weaponry to do so, thus they were deemed honourable prey. Poncho though was a different story. At the time of his death, caused by a plasmacaster bolt to the head, he was extremely injured & could barely stand due to being hit with a log trap, which was originally being used as part of the team's plan to take the predator down. At the time of his death, he wasn't very able bodied, but still brandished a weapon in his hand with hostile intentions towards the predator, as he had all along, so was still considered an honourable kill.

As far as the surface camp in AVP goes, the scene was probably intended merely to announce the arrival of the predators on a strong & powerful note as they decimated their prey. While they were there for the aliens, the guards at the surface still posed a reasonable threat, & could have potentially called in backup if they had recieved any sort of transmission informing them of the events that were taking place down in the pyramid. They were all armed with assault rifles, & more than willing & able to defend themselves. They weren't actually considered as prey though, as not a single trophy was taken. The predators were ultimately there for the aliens, to complete the blooding ritual, & nothing more. According to speculation, predators aren't allowed to hunt humans for trophies until they have killed an alien & earned the right to become blooded.

Xenomorphs are considered extremely dangerous prey, their hostility & natural killing ability means they are considered worthy prey. They are physically just as powerful as a predator, & are extremely hostile to anything except for their own kind. Considering them dishonourable prey simply because they do not brandish technological weapons is the equivalent of a big game hunter turning his back on a lion because it was not armed with a gun or a knife. The xenomorphs also did attack first, contrary to your statement Crow. Chopper was impaled through the abdomen & had Grid's inner jaw slammed through his skull in a completely unprovoked assault.

Anna & Lex on the other hand did not present any sort of genuine threat to the predators, nor did they ever make an attempt to attack or kill one of them. Prior to the fight between Celtic & Grid though, Chopper was ready to kill Lex, as she had made an attempt to reach for a large ice pick, presumably to attack Celtic with. The situation in one of the hallways where Scar had threatened Lex until she turned over the plasmacaster was more than likely intended as a bluff. All he wanted was his weapon, & using intimidation as the means to get it seemed like the most effective solution. Although why he aimed his caster at her afterwards is beyond me. I'm assuming it was intended more of an "introduction" of the plasmacaster into the movie. Anna on the other hand was too terrified due to the events occurring around her to try & act against the predator. She gave slight aid to Dutch's team in certain situations, but beyond that, she posed no threat whatsoever to the predator.

Leona from Predator 2 had her life spared due to her pregnancy. She had hostile intentions towards the predator, although killing her would mean killing a defenceless child also, which would be considered an extreme dishonour. Due to this, & the fact that the predator had her at his complete mercy, meaning she was no longer able to defend herself, her life was spared. As far as the queen is concearned, the only time we have seen a predator pitted against one was after she had already detached from her ovipositor & was currently incapable of laying any more eggs, thus meaning she was considered fair game.

Judging by all of this, the main principles of the honour code in my opinion seem to be:

Prey which poses any significant threat, or has a strong willingness to fight is considered fair game. Prey armed with weapons which have the potential to be harmful is considered fair game, whether the weapon is technological or natural is of little concearn. Pregnant females are not to be killed under any circumstances unless they pose a severe & critical threat. Simply subduing or incapacitating them is the preferable option if necessary.

Using underhanded tactics against prey is considered a dishonour. If the situation strongly places the odds in the predator's favour, try to even out the playing field by using less formidable weapons, if needs be, even expose your own weaknesses to give less able prey a fighting chance. Killing other hunters is strictly forbidden, & is punishable by death. An exception can be made in the case of bad blooded yautja, which should be killed on sight to bring an end to their shame & dishonour.

Allowing the secrets of the yautja species to be uncovered & become widespread knowledge amongst the more intelligent prey is considered a great dishonour. If needs be, initiate the self destruct function in the event that you are likely to be captured or killed to prevent the technological secrets & existence of the species from being uncovered. In the event that the secrets fall into the hands of those who would willingly use them against us, banishment & exile would be fitting punishments if the one who allowed this dishonour were ever to return.

We never actually saw how Billy was killed, so there is plenty of speculation. Although the last predator POV shot seen before his death was facing him from the front, not from behind, so I am assuming the predator attacked him head on.

I also already explained why Anna & Lex had been spared. Anna was unarmed, & made no sort of attempt to attack the predator whatsoever, aside from immediately after Hawkins was killed & she attempted to reach for his weapon, at which point Dutch kicked it out of her hands before the predator could turn on her & opened fire to keep the creature distracted long enough for her to make her escape to the extraction chopper. Lex also handed the plasmacaster over to Scar without hesitation. She was defenceless & unarmed, & rather than harm her in order to retrieve his weapon, he simply used intimidation as his method of choice.

...*is speechless*...

Well...that makes sense to me XD

But would it really only be pregnant women who fall under that code? Neither of the women from Predator or AvP were pregnant, either...

Also, even though the yautja did accept the challenge, it did attack Billy while invisible, and from behind. That could be considered cowardice.


Forget the freak,
I'm just nature

We can instantly rule out any breaks in the code in Predator 2 because that yautja was either a Bad Blood or from a separate clan.

But while the yautja supposedly don't harm the defenseless, in the original Predator the yautja hunted down and killed one of Dutch's squad members (Billy I believe) when he is weilding nothing more than a machete, and not even while posing a threat to the yautja.

While this can be considered armed, he clearly did not pose any sort of blatant threat to the yautja...I am also unsure how it was able to distinguish that a machete was even considered a weapon.

The yautja in Predator also gunned down two of Dutch's squad members when they were doing nothing more than observing the yautja as it perched in the jungle canopy. They were armed, but their weapons were not presented in any sort of lethal manner.

Also, in AvP, the yautja wiped out individuals wihtin the surface camp with little mercy or reason -- they could have just as easily have snuck in.

Likewise, they mercilessly kill the xenomorphs as prey, even though their weild no weapons and did not attack first.

However, we do know one absolute: Neither Anna nor Lex were killed by the yautja, nor was any genuine attempt on their lives made.

Aside from being unarmed, they were female. Since we have only seen male yautja thus far, it is safe to assume that the females are either very rare, or in a superior or inferior position in their society.

So, it is safe to assume that the yautja would view other creatures of female gender to be superior, inferior, or too valuable to be hunted and killed.

To further prove this point, we have also never seen the yautja make an attempt on a xenomorph queen's life until after she has attacked one of them.

So, based on this information, I think a more accurate rule within their code of honour is as follows:

No yautja shall attack an organism of distinguishable female gender unless he/she is attacked first.

Does this make any sense?


Forget the freak,
I'm just nature.

well,i guess so,and i guess that,females of their soceity are used for mating,and maybe some 'fun' here and there,and as for the yautja in predator,may have actually known that a machete was a weapon,and it gunned his men down because they were holding weapons in the first place.
eh?!


Bloodlust and ten thousand years of bitter
hatred fuel these Forces of Chaos,driving their relentless crusade to destroy the Emperor and reduce His Imperium to ashes.Let the Galaxy Burn!

Who were the 2 looking at the pred.
I thought it was Mac and someone, but Mac was killed alone right?

Maybe The reason for killing Billy was he had the Machete, The pred figured it was a sharpened piece of metal, like wristblades which are fighting tools. Billy had the machete out of the holster, meaning he was going to use it.

In AVP with the preds just killing the guys on the camp, i dont know about that one.

"However, we do know one absolute: Neither Anna nor Lex were killed by the yautja, nor was any genuine attempt on their lives made."- been a while since i last saw AVP, but i think Lex was about to get killed. By Scar i think, until she turned over the Plasma caster, Scar probably thought she was gonna unveil the tech to others and was gonna stop that from happening.


"Likewise, they mercilessly kill the xenomorphs as prey, even though their weild no weapons and did not attack first."- not entirely sure what you meant on this one but i think you yourself said something about Xeno's being constantly hostile and considered the ultimate prey. or Maybe the preds were eager.

Maybe the rules should be-

No yautja shall attack and organism of distinguishable female gender unless he/she is attacked first.

If an organism holds stolen tech, no matter if it is male or female the tech should try to be retrieved, even if the result breaks above rule.

Ill edit more if i can

I'd like to hear more of your side Crow if i could.

THE EVIL FURBY IN MY SIG IS WATCHING YOU!!!

.:Message Board, RPG Rules & Information:.<--Click it

"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes."

Billy knew the Predator was coming, not specifically for him but for the rest of the group. So, If you don't remember, Billy challenged the Predator in a way. He pulled his weapon out and showed him he was ready to fight. The Predator took the bait and killed him.

I don't think that's defenseless prey, he had a weapon and he defended himself by challenging the Predator.

-I will work on the rest of your post later.


.:Killswitch Forum:. .:The Chainsaw HOUSE:. .:Message Board, RPG Rules & Information:.

lol how in gods name does a mechety not poss a threat to a pred ?

lol clealy knives and swords do provoke the predators , look at king Willy .... sam cocept

Universal Affliction: The best site on the Web ;)
Liquid GFX:Graphics central of the Universe;)

Well, there is also the entire cross-racial and cross-cultural element to this incident with Billy: He drew a machete and, if I recall, cut himself across the chest with it.

From the yautja's viewpoint, this could have either have been a challenge, or just some nut cutting himself across the chest. It all depends on their own viewpoint and cultural traditions.

Anyway, Black Warrior, that indeed does make quite a bit of sense, though perhaps they also revert back to the previous rule once the tech has been acquired yet again.

So, maybe it should go like this:

No yautja shall attack and organism of distinguishable female gender unless he/she is attacked first.

If an organism holds stolen yautja technology, that technology must be retrieved or eliminated at all costs, even if it breaches the previous rule.

If the technology is retrieved and the organism is still alive, follow the first rule.


Forget the freak,
I'm just nature.

Let's do a breakdown...

'...the yautja hunted down and killed one of Dutch's squad members (Billy I believe) when he is weilding nothing more than a machete, and not even while posing a threat to the yautja.'

The yautja knew it was up against a trained group of warriors. Billy blantly challenged the yautja outright by choosing to make a last stand with a weapon. Billy's body language was a clear indication of his intention.

'...he clearly did not pose any sort of blatant threat to the yautja...I am also unsure how it was able to distinguish that a machete was even considered a weapon.'

This is relative. I already mentioned the situation. If a yautja does not know what a bladed weapon is , then the whole franchise is pointless, the creature would be an aboriginal animal on its home planet.

'...The yautja in Predator also gunned down two of Dutch's squad members when they were doing nothing more than observing the yautja as it perched in the jungle canopy. They were armed, but their weapons were not presented in any sort of lethal manner.'

You are looking into the situation with a VERY small outlook and out of context: 1) the Yautja know there is prey on this planet 2) they would know soem of that prey can be formidible if given the chance 3) the memory span of a yautja lasts more than 6 seconds I'm sure, it won't forget this is a group of warriors that is clearly fighting back.

'Also, in AvP, the yautja wiped out individuals wihtin the surface camp with little mercy or reason -- they could have just as easily have snuck in.'

The Weyland staff was armed. But although the 'intent' of the blooded ritual was to triumph over the Xenos, the director chose to make the movie this way. Another reason why fans dislike both him and the movie.

'Likewise, they mercilessly kill the xenomorphs as prey, even though their weild no weapons and did not attack first.'

This is getting ridiculous, as I breifly pointed out, Yautja posess knowledge.

'However, we do know one absolute: Neither Anna nor Lex were killed by the yautja, nor was any genuine attempt on their lives made.'

Anna was pregnant, she was left alone but she had been targeted for death until that point. Lex was also targeted until she offered the plasma caster and showed no signs of aggression toward the yautja.

I didn't bother to read the rest of the posts so pardon me if I have repeated what others have said. This was a decent try at a topic starter but not really a good one as it was full of so many holes, and seemed a little intentional.






Azzazin of Balatu
Struggle is The Glory
Tha Forum Rules

Yea...Otang, we pretty much already covered that o_O

The point of this topic is not to argue that the yautja have a memory and will attack others based on past history, but rather the holes that this behavior pokes into their code of honour.

They attack the xenomorphs because they know how xenomorphs behave -- that is both a prejudice and a violation of their code of attacking unarmed organisms. Hence why we are discussing the code in this topic.

It might be a good idea to read the entire topic before posting stuff like that :3


Forget the freak,
I'm just nature.

Well my arguments aren't the memory, its that there isn't holes in the code, only in your arguments about it. You focus on the wrong words in my my post, and fail to see the big picture in the movies.

It's still outrageous that you think Xenos are unarmed and not dangerous. Are they sheep? Did you join a xeno clan for their cowardace or thier innocense? I think not. You are entitled to your opinion but don't try to convince us about this one.

Show facts please or risk losing the thread, no more playtime.


Azzazin of Balatu
Struggle is The Glory
Tha Forum Rules

Dude...chill out. I never said the xenomorphs are not dangerous. Just relax, read the topic, and don't get so worked up over nothing.

Besides, I see no reason for you to even lock the topic. You have no probable cause to do so, this is just a thread for friendly debate and discussion involving the topic.

Anyway...

According to what has been discussed involving the 'standardized' yautja's code, they aren't supposed to attack unarmed organisms.

A xenomorph, despite its natural weapons, is unarmed by definition. Their defenses are solely natural, and they weild nothing which can break the defining point between being armed and unarmed.

To put it simply, whether or not a creature is dangerous or even a threat is a construction. It varies depending on different individual's viewpoints, and can differ greatly.

However, to say a xenomorph is armed for possessing claws and fangs is like saying a human is armed for possessing teeth. It just doesn't make sense.

My point is simple: If the yautja are supposed to not attack unarmed organisms, why do they attack the xenomorphs without being attacked first, and isn't this a breach in their honour code?


Forget the freak,
I'm just nature.

My limited views:

1:- Everyone has stated all my main points but i have read somewhere, i think it was an official avp site that pred females were bigger and stronger than their male counterparts

2:- Dude this is overthinking it a little dontcha think? i mean, its like asking a question that comes from nowhere and isnt in the cartoon or comics.

(unofficial Below)
3:-Lol you all write too much



http://galvergd.proboards57.com/index.cgi

Join this site. Its nearly finished, and it has recently gone under a few design Improvements, Join today!

OK I'm relaxed, not trying to pick on your arguments, you usually have great posts. Only that the 'Yautja honor code' according to the films hasn't been breeched . Let's say for example that the Predator went after the young girl in the first movie, or let's say a predator went after unarmed people in the subway scene. That would really show evidence for your side. Instead for what we can see, it only targeted the thugs and armed civilians and once he detected a fetus in the woman ( I forgot her name at this time) he let her go.




Azzazin of Balatu
Struggle is The Glory
Tha Forum Rules

Yes, I do understand that, but I am not bringing the code of honor which the yautja exhibit in the films into question, I am questioning the code of honour which the yautja-using members on this site follow and present in their arguments.

Namely, I am questioning the widely accepted belief that the yautja will not harm those who are unarmed or do not pose a significant threat.

That is also why I backed up my questioning with the scene involving the attack on the hired hands in the whaling station in AvP, as well as the combat with the xenomorphs in the same film.

Though the whaling station individuals were armed, they did not pose a noticeable threat to the yautja present, nor were they there with the intention to kill them.

Likewise, the xenomorphs in AvP were unarmed, and though they did pose a threat, their natural weapons seem to blur the line between armed and unarmed within the code.

Moreover, I'm not trying to rewrite the code from the films, but see if it's possible to better define the yautja code so that it can be firmly established on this site.

Thus far, Black Warrior and myself have narrowed down parts of their code to three simple rules:

1) No yautja shall attack and organism of distinguishable female gender unless he/she is attacked first.

2) If an organism holds stolen yautja technology, that technology must be retrieved or eliminated at all costs, even if it breaches the previous rule.

3) If the technology is retrieved and the organism is still alive, follow the first rule.

I'm just asking if anyone else has something to put in or add, then they are more than welcome to do so.


Forget the freak,
I'm just nature.

I'd like to add in "If a creature shows itself as a direct or potential threat, it is considered honorable prey and can delt with as such" This would explain a lot more on why the predators attacked the Xenomorphs and why they attacked the soldiers even though they didn't attack. They already knew the Xenos were threats, and since the soldiers in Predator not only had weapons, but had also proven thenselves to be able to put up a fight.

*sigh* If only I was witty enough to think of something to say here.

Very intersting points...


"To me, everyone is crazy. The ones in the mental house got caught."