AVP is now Non-Canon

indd

i liked the AVP movies but what Fox is doing now with making it non-cannon was probably for the best

AvP was never canon. For me, at least. It just hurts to think that such a bad movie would be held as part of those two awesome series.

Same here

If this is indeed true, then it's great news for me. Even with my personal dislike for the AVP movies aside, those 2 still contain too many retcons and continuity errors for them to be a legit addition to the 2 series even if they had been decent movies.

On that note though, does anyone know when the movie Predators is supposed to take place?

Well from what they say in the trailer, the action takes place on a "game reserve" on another planet. At least i think it's on another planet, i don't know what would stop the preds from setting up something like that in a jungle on Earth even.

It probably is on another planet because the humans can't escape or call for help.

what the hell are you talking about? Predators contains no plot details so far to say it retcons AvP and we know absolutly nothing about the alien prequel. gosh you damn fanboys, get over AvP already.

Yeah there's nothing in Predators saying that AVP never happened. The only thing Rodriguez said was that he was ignoring the sequels including Predator 2 and just making his own Predator movie that he feels is going to be a direct sequel to the first movie. Ridley Scott said in a interview I watched that he wished he could've been involved in the first AVP, but he wished the best of luck to Paul Anderson though. The only person who really has went out and expressed his feelings is the high conceded James Cameron saying on multiple occasions that AVP has destroyed the franchise which is his own opinion that he really should keep to himself. He talked shit about T4 and then used Sam Worthington to star in his own movie.. I love Jim's movies, but I don't like his attitude to people who make a movie to honor him, even if it's not the best, he shouldn't be that way. He's the 50 Cent of the movie industry, that's a good way to put it, cuz 50 is quick to diss up and coming and established artists as well.... Any way, I still consider the AVP movies as part of the legacy, but then again, I'm more of a AVP fanatic than a fan, because I really enjoy all the movies, comics and games that came out so far (except AVP Deadliest of the species).
And Death Wraith I already know u are gonna bash me for it, so do yourself a favor and hold your breath this time....

mr_loco: Oh definetly the AVP movies are part of the canon, but that's not because of any of our own preferences. The movies exists, and those who made it wanted those movies as part of the continuity. So no matter whether you like them or not, they're part of the canon now.

But once again, if Predators somehow retcon AVP (that's a big if because we still don't have much information on the movie itself) then I would be pleased. If not then nothing lost, nothing gained.

All right, I disagree with this. If AvP is no longer canon, then they're not legit movies. They were green-lighted so they are true to the story, even if they were bad. By the way, I really like the first AvP, but not Requiem.

I disagree with the people saying the AvP movies are canon for the following reason. AvP and AvPR are part of neither the Alien franchise nor the Predator franchise. They are a whole new franchise that has as much to do with the previous different two as they have to do with eachother. As long as we are talking about Predator and Alien canon, then the movies Predator, Predator 2, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection are canon. Canon logic works simply like so: It was first, therefore it was the original idea, therefore it is canon. By that logic, Alien versus Predator canon stands neither in the Alien, Predator nor AvP franchises. If we are talking about AvP canon, we should be talking about the original material that introduced a crossover between the two franchises, which as far as i know, were some comic books.

I started out as a fan of the Alien creature, the Alien movies and the AvP games, before the AvP movie was even a project. I understood that the AvP games were never going to be canon in the universe of the Alien movies no matter how much i liked them and not because someone didn't like them, but because they were not part of the Alien franchise. And just so, these two movies, AvP and AvPR, will never be canon in the Alien universe not because i don't like them, but because they are not part of the Alien franchise. It's pretty simple.

In the Alien franchise, the Aliens function in a very well established way. In the AvP franchise it's a completely different thing. A completely stupid thing.

if thats you're view of cannon then fine. However as far as i am concerned if its made in the same medium as the original content ie. film and produced by the current copyright holder/parent company then it is the offical cannon. eg say with the bond films and 'never say never again', not produced by the then offical parent company of the character therefore not part of the offical cannon. unfortunatly AvP and AvP-R are part of the offical cannon as is (unfortunatly) Alien Ressurection. The games are not cannon because they are games (different medium) written by a thrid party. It is part of the franchise but the medium makes it's place in the cannon unknown. Spin off media (ie. different medium) are the only things that are debatable with cannon.

unless of course an officail movie retcons another.

Well yes, i can understand that logic too, however AvPR canon contradicts the canon of the original Alien movies. The original directors set a certain life cycle that, as ambiguous as it is, is accepted as canon, right? But even in that ambiguity it is pretty clear that the predalien from AvPR is not part of that life cycle and therefore it is not possible to simultaneously accept the canon of the original Alien franchise and the AvP movies.

Original canon is that when a creature gets facehugged by a regular facehugger, the result will be a drone that has a few features from the host, such as the shape of the skull under the dome or the shape of the limbs. This drone, in the absence of a Queen, is able to transform other living creatures into an egg that will give birth to a Superfacehugger, that will implant a Queen embryo that will result in a queen that can lay regular facehugger eggs using an organ that we still have no idea how is formed, or where the hell it comes from.

AvPR canon is that there are two kinds of facehugger, and when a creature gets facehugged by a regular facehugger, it will randomly result into something with exagerrated features of the host, in such a way that it loses its xenomorph appearance and proprieties almost completely, and is able to spew embryos through its mouth into whatever hole in the body it wants to. Meaning in AvP canon, Alien canon is not canon. And therefore the AvP franchise and the Alin franchise cannot be canon at the same time.

For a simple analogy as i like to make, if you have a movie about how every human evolved from chimps, then you have a crossover between that movie and something else where every human evolved from cats, can those two be of the same canon just because they are of the same medium?

In that regard, i am absolutely terrified by the upcoming Alien prequel... If that movie screwes up the canon i will no longer have anything to base any arguements for any feature of the xenomorph upon...

I see your logic aswell however maybe AvP-R is just retconing "Alien" :P. either that or some comic will eventually explain that because of the accleration of the life cycle that the preds cause (as was the general justification for the time between facehugging and chest bursting in AvP) the species has entered some evolutionary step that would bypasss the facehugger part of the lifecycle. but hey that would probably appear in some comic which would be debated as canon. I suppose its just up to each one of us to settle the contridications of the cannon in our own minds so that we can look at this mess with some logical explaination. anyway what happened to the discussion about Predators retconning stuff

Here's my opinion:

Both "Alien" and "Predator" originally started out as movies, I agree with the idea that the comics being canon because they started AvP, but Alien and Pred started as movies, therefore I considder all movies to be canon, also because most people just watch TV and see AvP advertised and say "oh that movie looks good" and they go and watch it, they arent Alien and Pred fans, just movie viewers.

Just like games such as Mortal Kombat, it started as a game therefore the games are canon, the first MK movie F'd up the story but it was still a GREAT movie, therefore it isnt canon but I like it, I dont think that the first movie is officially the first games canon, even MK vs DC is canon, why? its an MK game. But its a crossover! so what. its MK and its a game.

So therefore I considder all movies to be canon. Sure AvP-R had a horridly introduced story, random people tell us their names and escape the alien species'...whoopdyfrickendoo. and it was more action and blood/gore than horror. But I still liked AvP-R, and I really liked AvP I really dont see what is so bad about it. Sure its action and not horror, but its a good movie, its cool, and not only that, but just be glad they ACTUALLY made a MOVIE for Alien and Predator, what more could you ask for? Go ahead and try to pitch me a story or plot that would make a great AvP story that has to focus on humans because it would be boring if it was focused on preds or aliens, there would be no dialogue, no understandable story, and it has to be at least an hour and a half long to 3 hours. I liked it.

As far as AvP-R's Predalien inserting eggs into other people... something that me and my sibling both agree on, and agree that we didnt like, was the possibility that it wasnt JUST a Predalien... but it also just happened to be a Praetorian. and since it wasnt a ful queen it couldn't "lay" eggs, it was still a Praetorian, as well as a Predalien, which yes does ruin the introducion of a Predalien into films but it makes sense. Not even a Predalien would be THAT huge and powerful. It also had that larger frill on its head like a Praetorian, not just the hairs of a Pred. Also the queen was killed, so they needed a new queen, hence the Predalien/Praetorian mix, it's the next queen for the hive. Thats my theory.

And Predators isnt a sequel to Predator 1, he said, "I dont want people to look at it as the 5th or 6th movie in the series... but the FIRST" he's not sequeling the pred series, AvP series, or even just Pred 1, and most certainly NOT prequeling Alien, hes making a film of Predators, just that simple.

But again, since most people that know AvP stuff are adults that watched Alien and Predator when they were younger or watched AvP because they thought it was a good movie... not because they were fanboys like the rest of us, and Alien and Predator were originally films, which is where their story lies, therefore any and all films are canon. Games are add-ons for entertainment, although the AvP games seem to fit in anyway, Weyland-Yutani and all of that, I considder the games to be canon as well, I really do, but I wont argue that point here, just the films is my simple canon preferance, just note I considder the games as well.

And again I understand how AvP was nothing like the old Alien and Pred films, but I still liked it... why do you all hate it so much?

Hunter_Predator: In regards to your last comment asking why we hate the AVP movies so much, I'll attempt to explain it with my own personal viewpoint.

The problem with the AVP movies isn't because that they're completely devoid of any sort of entertainment value or are the worst things ever made (although some fans might say otherwise). No matter how much you might enjoy the movies, they're still not going to be accepted as part of the franchise by most.

Why? Because movies like Alien, Aliens, Predator (and some might say Alien3) set a certain standard that these movies have to live up to. And unfortunately they fall quite short of that. Story, characters, creature design all cannot come close to what the originals did. So as much as you enjoy it, most will not for these reasons.

And this is not counting all the plot holes and continuity errors that these movies created (like the Alien life cycle, the Predator's blooding ritual, Alien being on Earth, Pyramid and ancient races etc, I could go on) all as an attempt for them to merge these two franchises together.

I understand all of that I really do. And thanks for answering. But my arguement to that is like you said, the originals set a high standard, everyone agrees that nothing is as good as the original, thats been proven a hundred times, but can't people at least look at AvP as a good stand alone film? maybe it isn't good for the franchise, but was it a good movie? like I stated, the first Mortal Kombat movied messed up the story completely, mainly the fact that Sorpion and Sub-Zero were allies in the film, and mortal rivals in the game, so it f'd that up, but I still love the movie for the sole purpose that it was a great movie IMO.

I do see your point of view though, thanks.

In a recent MTV Blogs Interview, Rodriguez further confirms that his reboot is to be the direct sequel to the original, ignoring Predator 2, Alien vs. Predator and Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem.

This is what Robert Rodriguez said.

“Maybe people will forget all the bad sequels and only think this one and the original exist”


That confirms AVP is non-canon.

non-canon to rodriguez maybe, but not to me, his opinion can't change that, he isnt in charge of the storyline, and people arent just going to forget about them Rodriguez...sorry. But thanks for the info.

~EDIT~
And I find that comment by Rodriguez to be very arrogant, conceited and egotistical. Who is he to say that everyone will forget the sequels and only know the first and HIS. I really hate it when people do that. Like I said, HE can't decide that merely because he decided to make a Pred film, I like Pred 1 the best but I still loved Pred 2 and the AvP films. he can considder P2 Avp 1 + 2 non-canon all he wants, but keep it to himself. Predators may turn out to be a great film, but that doesnt mean I'll ignore the rest, and certainly not mean I'll show him respect for making a good movie, he's lost my respect.