Would the M41A Pulse Rifle's 10mm Ammunition penetrate Predator Armour?

There may be an extensive diagram of the bullet, but none of predator armor.

Its made of an alien metal, the properties and statistics of have never been explained or recorded. We have no idea how it is made or how much of it is used when making, say a chest plate. All we can do is note how much protection it was in the movies.

Throughout both Predator movies, the armor has never been penetrated by any kind of bullet. I can't recall a list of each of these weapons used by memory, but there were all ranging from police to military level. The armor may be invulnerable to all bullets, or just 20th century ones, there is no way to know.

Probably not right away, but sustained fire would do some damage.

Keep in mind that in AvP, a predator was hit by a Desert Eagle but the round did not penetrate the plates.

It was hit a few times, but not rapid-fire for several seconds. A xeno's tail could apparently pop through the armor no problem, and the pulse rifles tore through them like butter.

I think a ompromise (I assume this is an RPG question) would be that sustained fire can eventually break the armor.

Well i'm not into bullets that much but a lump of C4 would do the trick. Also, since a xeno's tail could penetrate it, i assume something that can penetrate a xeno's tail would too.

I doubt standard assault rifle rounds would be able to penetrate predator metal. In the films, it was shown to deflect M4/M16 rounds & shotgun shells without leaving a scratch. Whether a pulse rifle is significantly more powerful than a modern day assault rifle has always been unclear.

The armour in the first AVP film seemed to be somewhat weaker than in the others, as an alien was shown to be capable of penetrating it with a physical attack. It's much the same as the "acid proof" debate- not all armour is equal. Some predators wear less, but stronger armour, while others wear large plates that cover more of their body, but are more susceptible to damage.

Thing is, what are they supposed to do to fight us in the RPG? I know that's connon in the films and all... But surely we can tweek the rules a bit?

In regards to the RPG- Our entire bodies aren't armoured. Typically only the heart, shoulders, flanks & shins have any dense plating on them. The rest of the body is a wide-open target. Let's not forget that pulse rifles are also armed with a grenade launcher, & that's not their only weapon in the RPG.

Good points. I guess that works out, then.

-=Nods=- This sounds about fair enough. Only a sustained attack would get through, is what you're sayin here?

Generally that is the way it works out with the physics and such too. With the use of armour piercing rounds against armoured targets, the first round or two generally weaken the armour to a point that any subsequent rounds placed near to it will penetrate quite easily.

The round itself is actually a bit of a modification on your standard HEAP round, the explosive used in the way a hollow-point would, to cause more internal damage, rather than to clear a way for the penetrator. Designed to use against infantry wearing armour, not vehicles or heavy barricades.

Either way, the round would strike the armour of the Predator and mushroom, triggering the high explosive core and creating a small explosion, maybe even capable of punching a nice round hole where it struck. If not, the next round most probably will. After this, the penetrator would push into the body and detonate, causing a rather large amount of internal damage. The round could be triggered by hitting the body, or striking the inside of the armour from the other side as it passed through. It all depends on how fine the fuse is set and how much pressure it requires to activate.

Just as a point on this internal damage, the explosion would cause the steel penetrator to fragment, effectively creating a dum-dum round that scatters the pieces farther and with a lot more force behind them. I seriously would not want to be hit by one of these things.

By the way, I'm not actually biased towards the Marines, and I am not just one of Sam's lackeys that listens to his every word and blindly obeys. Apparently I'm a stubborn bastard and damn near impossible to get to do anything. I actually quite like the Predators, loved 'em since I first saw the films years ago, and I don't really mind the aliens. Scared the shit out of me when I first watched Alien with dad at 11pm when I was 7 or something, didn't sleep very well for the next few days after that. Offtopic...

Back on topic now. In my opinion, the round would be quite capable of penetrating Predator armour. It would quite easily kill a marine if accidentally shot at them too, and an alien's skin should be penetrated.

The only issue with the armour of the Preds is that we have no statistics on its actual strength, penetration resistance and the levels of energy it is capable of absorbing before a hole is blown in it, and must therefore speculate a bit. Descriptions in terms of relation to the strength of steel are not accurate either, as steel is an alloy and can contain many different levels of carbon, chromium, nickel, etc, all of them altering the strength. There is a fair difference between 1.8% High-Carbon steel and 420 Grade Stainless. Maybe I'm just complicating things.

I don't think the Marines are on the Geneva Convention Bandwagon, with ammo like that. O.O

If I understand Xavier correctly, he believes that one or two rounds could easily penetrate the armor. There are a number of problems with this idea.

There is no way to know the exact strength and properties of predator metals. As Stalker and I have said, predator armor has been shown to stand up to handguns, shotguns, and military grade weapons. There is no way to tell if pulse rifle rounds have more penetrating power then the weapons used in the Predator movies.

Also, the pulse rifle's ammunition is classified as light armor piercing, meaning it was designed to penetrate the human version of light armor. This implies that a pulse rifle cannot penetrate armor that is a heavier classification then light. I think it is safe to say that a predator's armor is much too resistant to be classified as light armor by human standards.

For most human militaries, heavy armour is what we call Tanks. Light armour is an armour worn by infantry.

The point is: it'll take some doing, but the armor isn't invincible. It's tough, but there's only so much it can tak. Since a xeno's tail popped right through it, I would think a pulse rifle could damage it.

Three or four rounds of a decent power placed within an inch will penetrate most armours. This is simply because the stress of the first round will weaken to the metal to the point within an inch or so.

Also, The military definition of a Light Armour piercing round is generally one capable of penetrating lightly armoured vehicles and aircraft. Due to the capability to pierce kevlar body armour with your standard FMJ ball round.

This calls in the standards of human metals versus predator metals. What might be classified as heavy armor for humans could be light for predators. Thanks to the spear tip from Predator 2, it has been shown that predators can produce metals that are much lighter then their size and shape would illustrate. This brings the possibility that the protection from predator armor can be classified as heavy armor by humans, while still possessing a lowered weight to allow necessary movement.

Stand back everyone. Clear the area. Xavier's going to try SCIENCE!

Science coming shortly, I believe (he talked about this stuff to me to explain...my brain fried. Methinks he;s a tad smarter than me)

You have to look at the fact that armours considered heavy by today's standards are quite thick and heavy. Generally, the metal or composites are quite thick, more than an inch. There are too many factors to properly calculate the strength of the metals the Predators use. Do they use alloys? What is the chemical make-up of the element? Atomic number and mass?

With the spots that are free on the periodic table, it is almost an impossibility that the material would be light in comparison to the elements we have, all of the spots at the lower end where the lighter materials are have all been taken. The material itself would have to have an atomic number of at least 120, Giving it a minimum atomic mass of 121 gmol-1, and that is with only one neutron.

Comparatively Iron has an average atomic mass of 55.85 gmol-1. This means that 6.02x10^23 atoms of Iron weigh in at approximately 55.85g. That is approximately 2-4 bullets worth of iron. This is relative due to the fact that lead has an atomic mass of 207 gmol-1, and a bullet weighs in at approximately 50 g of lead.

Either way, The element itself should have a mass somewhere closer to that of lead than the bare minimum, if not heavier. Because of this, going my amount, it would be at least twice as heavy, most likely four times as heavy, as the same amount of iron. This would probably explain the excessively small amount of the stuff the Preds actually wear, they may be strong, but I doubt they are that strong.

The issue we are mainly dealing with though is the capabilities of the metal/alloy to stop penetration. These we cannot know without actually having the metal and testing it. An impossibility to do with the fictional status of it. I'll watch Predator 2 again soon and see what information I can gleam from it about the armour and see if I can work anything else out.

Even with a science degree that hurt my brain, lol.