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HomeForum › Would the M41A Pulse Rifle's 10mm Ammunition penetrate Predator Armour?

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Would the M41A Pulse Rifle's 10mm Ammunition penetrate Predator Armour?

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Sam-Jack-Dunn
2009-08-01 07:56:11
Human
Okay. As Hicks from Aliens described the M41A Pulse Rifle, it fires 10mm Caseless Light Armour-Peircing Rounds.

As taken from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines_Technical_Manual]], it is elaborated as firing US-M309 10x24mm rounds.

As quoted from the Technical Manual:
A conventional round consists of a seperating cartridge containing primer and propellant with a bullet sitting inside the mouth of the cartridge. To fire, a firing pin ignites the primer and so the propellant, and the spent cartridge shell has to be mechanically extracted at the cyclic rate of the weapon.

In a caseless system the round consists of a projectile embedded directly into a rectangular block of high ignition temperature propellant. Priming is by a small electric spark and there are no mechanical extraction systems, though a mechnanical autoloader is required to keep pace with the cyclic of the weapon.

Here is a cutaway diagram of the bullet:



SO! Do you believe that the Pulse Rifle would be sufficient to defeat the armour that Predators wear? Discuss.

Sam Jack Dunn | Panzer Elite.

predator428
2009-08-01 09:01:06
Yautja
There may be an extensive diagram of the bullet, but none of predator armor.

Its made of an alien metal, the properties and statistics of have never been explained or recorded. We have no idea how it is made or how much of it is used when making, say a chest plate. All we can do is note how much protection it was in the movies.

Throughout both Predator movies, the armor has never been penetrated by any kind of bullet. I can't recall a list of each of these weapons used by memory, but there were all ranging from police to military level. The armor may be invulnerable to all bullets, or just 20th century ones, there is no way to know.


"Buncha slack-jawed faggots around here. This stuff will make you into a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me"-Blain
Deathdrop
2009-08-01 09:26:21
Yautja
Probably not right away, but sustained fire would do some damage.
predator428
2009-08-01 09:41:53
Yautja
Keep in mind that in AvP, a predator was hit by a Desert Eagle but the round did not penetrate the plates.


"Buncha slack-jawed faggots around here. This stuff will make you into a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me"-Blain
Deathdrop
2009-08-01 09:48:22
Yautja
It was hit a few times, but not rapid-fire for several seconds. A xeno's tail could apparently pop through the armor no problem, and the pulse rifles tore through them like butter.

I think a ompromise (I assume this is an RPG question) would be that sustained fire can eventually break the armor.
DeathWraith
2009-08-01 10:05:19
Xenomorph - Shadow Serpents
Well i'm not into bullets that much but a lump of C4 would do the trick. Also, since a xeno's tail could penetrate it, i assume something that can penetrate a xeno's tail would too.

READ THE RULES


A song about me and skull_ripper that I wrote:
"Yeah, uh, yea yeah, uh, yeah, crackers gonna crack yeah, uh, yeah..."
(thats what I have so far hope u like it)
Stalker
2009-08-01 10:28:50
Yautja - Balatu
I doubt standard assault rifle rounds would be able to penetrate predator metal. In the films, it was shown to deflect M4/M16 rounds & shotgun shells without leaving a scratch. Whether a pulse rifle is significantly more powerful than a modern day assault rifle has always been unclear.

The armour in the first AVP film seemed to be somewhat weaker than in the others, as an alien was shown to be capable of penetrating it with a physical attack. It's much the same as the "acid proof" debate- not all armour is equal. Some predators wear less, but stronger armour, while others wear large plates that cover more of their body, but are more susceptible to damage.
Deathdrop
2009-08-01 10:43:55
Yautja
Thing is, what are they supposed to do to fight us in the RPG? I know that's connon in the films and all... But surely we can tweek the rules a bit?
Stalker
2009-08-01 10:48:13
Yautja - Balatu
In regards to the RPG- Our entire bodies aren't armoured. Typically only the heart, shoulders, flanks & shins have any dense plating on them. The rest of the body is a wide-open target. Let's not forget that pulse rifles are also armed with a grenade launcher, & that's not their only weapon in the RPG.
Deathdrop
2009-08-01 11:00:46
Yautja
Good points. I guess that works out, then.
Sam-Jack-Dunn
2009-08-01 12:02:38
Human
-=Nods=- This sounds about fair enough. Only a sustained attack would get through, is what you're sayin here?

Sam Jack Dunn | Panzer Elite.

XavierBlacknight
2009-08-01 13:09:57
Human
Generally that is the way it works out with the physics and such too. With the use of armour piercing rounds against armoured targets, the first round or two generally weaken the armour to a point that any subsequent rounds placed near to it will penetrate quite easily.

The round itself is actually a bit of a modification on your standard HEAP round, the explosive used in the way a hollow-point would, to cause more internal damage, rather than to clear a way for the penetrator. Designed to use against infantry wearing armour, not vehicles or heavy barricades.

Either way, the round would strike the armour of the Predator and mushroom, triggering the high explosive core and creating a small explosion, maybe even capable of punching a nice round hole where it struck. If not, the next round most probably will. After this, the penetrator would push into the body and detonate, causing a rather large amount of internal damage. The round could be triggered by hitting the body, or striking the inside of the armour from the other side as it passed through. It all depends on how fine the fuse is set and how much pressure it requires to activate.

Just as a point on this internal damage, the explosion would cause the steel penetrator to fragment, effectively creating a dum-dum round that scatters the pieces farther and with a lot more force behind them. I seriously would not want to be hit by one of these things.

By the way, I'm not actually biased towards the Marines, and I am not just one of Sam's lackeys that listens to his every word and blindly obeys. Apparently I'm a stubborn bastard and damn near impossible to get to do anything. I actually quite like the Predators, loved 'em since I first saw the films years ago, and I don't really mind the aliens. Scared the shit out of me when I first watched Alien with dad at 11pm when I was 7 or something, didn't sleep very well for the next few days after that. Offtopic...

Back on topic now. In my opinion, the round would be quite capable of penetrating Predator armour. It would quite easily kill a marine if accidentally shot at them too, and an alien's skin should be penetrated.

The only issue with the armour of the Preds is that we have no statistics on its actual strength, penetration resistance and the levels of energy it is capable of absorbing before a hole is blown in it, and must therefore speculate a bit. Descriptions in terms of relation to the strength of steel are not accurate either, as steel is an alloy and can contain many different levels of carbon, chromium, nickel, etc, all of them altering the strength. There is a fair difference between 1.8% High-Carbon steel and 420 Grade Stainless. Maybe I'm just complicating things.
Sam-Jack-Dunn
2009-08-01 13:15:03
Human
I don't think the Marines are on the Geneva Convention Bandwagon, with ammo like that. O.O

Sam Jack Dunn | Panzer Elite.

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